its hard to treat guys and girls the same way when guys never understand girls and girls never understand guys... you have to forgive them...

The point isnt ignoring the differences but embracing them

Wow. That is exactly what I always say. Even the words are exact. You just mimicked my argument against almost all kinds of affirmative-action-type ordinances. Furthermore, that is the argument I use against anyone when they say everyone should be treated the same. I always just add one thing to cover up a potential hole in that argument: not always treating people the same does not mean giving them different privileges - everyone should be given the same liberties and opportunities, but that does not mean anyone should be treated differently.

What's surprising is that I made the earlier post in a Devil's advocate-type debate style - I was expecting you to react the exact opposite way. Almost everyone in the USA thinks everyone needs to be treated the exact same way... I thought you were going to find yourself in a paradox. Quite surprising response.

Let's see how far we agree on this line - do you believe that different races have different propensities?

lemme look up propensities...
a natural inclination, eh? not something i've ever really thought about...
i dont know if different races have different propensities... i think probably it depends less on the race and more on how they were brought up (note: the worst behaved, most selfish kids in the preschool i worked at for a summer were the ones with the parents who were not present and super controlling... the only other one who ever had to go into time out was defending himself). However different races have different ways of rasing their children and therefore it is quite possible that different races have different propensities.
What i will say i believe is that guys and girls have different propensities and people of different religions (different does include different sects of christianity and other religions) will likely have differnt propensities... and my argument of dont ignore but embrace the differences really applies to the "DONT OFFEND ANYONE SO YOU CANT TALK ABOUT RELIGION" view of being politically correct... which after a point, when you catch yourself singing "Kumbaya my earth, kumbaya" dont you think its gone a little too far?

and did anyone in Girl Scouts, who are so careful not to talk about god lest you offend someone who doesnt believe in god, ever think that maybe singing grace to the Cisco delivery guy (who delivers all the food)... might offend... the christians?

So really it is better to be all inclusive than all exclusive...

i went way off topic there didnt i?

Do you even know what "natural" means? It has nothing to do with the way that different races raise their children. I think he's asking about whether you believe that different races are inherently superior in certain aspects. I, for one, believe that all races do have advantages and disadvantages that other races don't (although it would be foolish to assume that any one race holds all the cards!) and anybody who actually believes stuff like "We all bleed red, there are no differences, race is only the color of your skin!" is fooling themselves. Race is much more than the amount of melanin in your flesh.

What? How the heck can a religion have a propensity? Especially considering the fact that religions always change over time?



Fair enough. Although the amount of Political Correctness is usually the heaviest in Western countries for some reason. For example, if you go to India, people have no problem openly acknowledging differences and not trying to hide them with fluff words. (I don't know much about Eastern European countries' views on it, though; Djbob, could you enlighten us? )

There's a problem with that. If you admit that races have propensities, then would it make sense to be all-inclusive in every aspect of life for everyone? I'm not objecting to your belief and I don't believe in segregating races because of racial predispositions, but that is a fair question.



Your post was generally well-written. I didn't notice any off-topicness...

i understand where you are coming from with this, however i think the diffrences come less from race and more from the needs of many previous generations associated with a specific race, such as why kenyas are typically so lean and fast.

i do know what natural means... generally what i meant by that is that how the person behaves is something that their upbringing affected and therefore not something they have control over unless they make an unnatural effort to change.


oh ok thanks for clearing that up for me... i do believe that there are differences, cause everyone has different talents and abilities but i wont necesarily say "All asians are amazing at math" because even though most asians are, some arnt... its also hard to classify people by their race because there are so many interracial marraiges these days... my godbrother is african and native american and maybe more... so what race is he? (or is he just a cute little 6 year old boy?)

im not saying the religion but the propensity of the people in it... if they believe something then naturally they are going to tend towards certain actions... for example if you believe in living for the sake of others then when you see an old lady who's struggling to cross the street and the light is about to turn green then probably you would help her accross... however if you believe in helping yourself first and others later, and have believed this all your life, you would not be likely to instictivly run out and help the lady accross.... i mean im talking what would you do in a situation that was act now think later...



I dont think people should have to be excluded from things just cause their race isnt nececarily interested in that kind of thing... but thats not what i meant
what i meant was on the lines of political correctness, instead of, say, cutting out all mentions of holidays cause someone might find them offensive, try to mention more than one... and the people who are offended honestly have to understand 2 things: first, someone saying happy hannukah might not know you're muslim, and second, just because you're muslim doesnt mean someone cant hope that the days hannukah falls on will be happy for you... i mean they still exist, right?
anyways thats my think on political correct...



*bow*

Really? So you'd say that the only reason black people are so great at basketball is because they were raised to play it? Look at the NBA. Only around 1000 elite players can get into it. I'm sure that there's got to be at least 1000 white Americans that have dedicated their lives to basketball. Yet, why can't they get in?

You're talking about nurture. I'm talking about nature. Do you honestly believe that the only difference between races is the color of their skin? If our skin is different, then what makes you think the rest of us is exactly the same?

I completely agree, but religion has nothing to do with race - one is genes and the other is a combination of upbringing and choice.

Nah... Christians are the majority, therefore they do not have the ability to be offended </sarcasm>

Yup, I agree.

Well, that depends what country. The USSR was all politically corrrect, but the new post-Soviet countries are getting a little backlash out of that.

Of course it comes from needs. However, it is also race. The two concepts are linked by natural selection. The need caused the genes to mutate in a way that creates a new race.

He's mixed.

That's more nurture than nature - the concept of propensity deals more with nature than nurture, however.

Yah, makes sense.

A vocabulary word from last year!

i never said i think that all races are the same... but i am not a scientist, i do not research humans and races so i have no idea why things like that occur. What i present to you are my opinions, and they arnt necesarily well founded. And consider, there are also many many blacks who are NOT good at basketball, so what of them?

they suck a basketball obviously, doh!

btw, err what does propensities mean (im too lazy to look it up)

natural tendencies basically

okay, that makes sense, thnx

Ahh, the stereotyping card, eh? Remember: I do not state that all black people are good at basketball. I only state that in general, black people are better than other races at basketball. That is hard to deny, let alone disprove. However much anyone tries to deny it, we all know black people are better than others at basketball. Don't go around it - you know it's true.

Myncknm - what do you have to say on this issue? Your arguments are always fun

Are you kidding me? Purrflicta mentioned the definition in her earlier posts. If you don't have something smart to say than don't say anything at all >_<

What do I have to say? Hmm. Well. Not much really. You've pretty much covered all of what I have to say.

Caucasians own the hockey world. I've only seen 1 black person in the NHL, well 2. One was a really good goalie.

yeah, but i'll bet that that is because caucasians are around hockey alot more than black or asian people.

Yah... hockey is a worse example since it is not as popular. Basketball is so popular that there are enough basketball-obsessed white people to fill the NBA. But white people are a minority within the NBA, and that is because they are genetically inferior at the game.

its hard to pull sports examples on my cause i dont follow any sports... not even swimming (tho i should)

"Not popular"? Psh. Popular around here. Move to Russia, then you'll see.

There isn't an NBA (or a love of basketball at all) in Russia, though. Your logic works both ways.

I was born in Russia
And there are no black people in Russia. The USA is almost the only valid example, as most other countries are based on nationalities; they don't have nearly as much mixed race as the US does.

hockey is popular in Canada and Minnesota too, if anyone cares.